Kayak rolling aid dissertation

flacky · 03-03-2004

In the world of kayaking some people tend to have difficulties with the concept of performing a roll.

I am looking into developing a rolling aid that could be used as a guiding system for pool work.

The idea is that a device that could be fitted to the kayak could provide a guide by which the paddler could follow the correct stroke to perform a basic screw roll.

There would be other benifits of the system that include being able to use the guide to perfect the roll "bombproof" in other words.

What im looking for from people is any views that you may have as regards to how feasible it may or may not be or even ideas of how you think it could fix to the boat.

I am a student at the University of Derby in the UK and am using this purely for my own research
Many thanks

Jay H · 03-03-2004

A screw roll is basically setup using a sweep stroke then a little hip action to get the boat underneath you. As far as a device to assist in this, I dunno what would be effective. I'm told that looking at your paddle blade will naturally assist in the roll, helping your upper body remain balanced and will also allow your head to come up above the water last. The only thing I can think of is perhaps some kind of keel that naturally makes the kayak want to right itself (on the kayakers preferred side of the roll) by use of weights. However, how to get in the position being upside down would be another challenge unless assisted by another person.

Plus, there is no such thing as a bombproof roll, it would be OK to use it as a teaching aid, but real-world conditions say that not every roll is bombproof.

I think simply good instruction and perhaps even a video will help push the concepts of rolling and since this is pool work, the students are already in the right place.

Jay

flacky · 03-03-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay H

A screw roll is basically setup using a sweep stroke then a little hip action to get the boat underneath you. As far as a device to assist in this, I dunno what would be effective. I'm told that looking at your paddle blade will naturally assist in the roll, helping your upper body remain balanced and will also allow your head to come up above the water last. The only thing I can think of is perhaps some kind of keel that naturally makes the kayak want to right itself (on the kayakers preferred side of the roll) by use of weights. However, how to get in the position being upside down would be another challenge unless assisted by another person.

Plus, there is no such thing as a bombproof roll, it would be OK to use it as a teaching aid, but real-world conditions say that not every roll is bombproof.

I think simply good instruction and perhaps even a video will help push the concepts of rolling and since this is pool work, the students are already in the right place.

Jay

Jay im sorry you seem to have misunderstood the overall design idea. thanks for your feedback but I happen to be a BCU Level 3 coach and explaining to me what a screw roll is, is nonsense. I suggest that if you wish to post feedback please assume certain things.

Us paddlers use words such as "bombproof" as a simple slang word and any suggestion to a roll being bombproof is simply just an expression of terms, such as being efficient.

The device is simply for coaching and not teaching purposes and there are significant differences between the two as any coach will tell you.

i'll file your feedback though thanks!

b_slow · 03-03-2004

Well, I'm currently learning to roll right now, and I had a thought a couple of weeks ago about a device that would be useful. Since most beginners (myself included to some extent) are not completely comfortable upside-down and underwater, it is nice to learn with someone out of their boat, standing (in the pool or wherever) next to you, so in case you don't hit your roll just right, they can grab your boat and flip you back up. If there was some sort of device that locked on to the front of your boat that flipped you back up (upon user input), you wouldn't have to wet-exit so much, thus saving time and dedicating more energy to learning to roll. Just a thought.

later,
Bob

flacky · 03-03-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_slow

Well, I'm currently learning to roll right now, and I had a thought a couple of weeks ago about a device that would be useful. Since most beginners (myself included to some extent) are not completely comfortable upside-down and underwater, it is nice to learn with someone out of their boat, standing (in the pool or wherever) next to you, so in case you don't hit your roll just right, they can grab your boat and flip you back up. If there was some sort of device that locked on to the front of your boat that flipped you back up (upon user input), you wouldn't have to wet-exit so much, thus saving time and dedicating more energy to learning to roll. Just a thought.

later,
Bob

Thanks for your feedback Bob I'll take what you've said into consideration!!

TonyB · 03-03-2004

Not sure how to accomplish this, but one thought popped into my mind ... if you have any kind of attachment to the yak, it will create drag...thereby making it harder to roll. So, if your device didn't attach to the yak, but to the pool floor, it would make it a little more sturdy (giving the student something to press against) and would not contribute to drag. Other benefit: -- easier to make some kind of "stand" to fit pools, than trying to make something so versitale that would fit all the different shapes of boats.

by the way -- don't get any ideas about producing this...the idea is MINE! you understand?!! mine mine mine go go go mine mine mine --- oh...sorry...daffy duck flashbacks.

ChristopherG · 03-04-2004

...at the amount of PhD dissertations that come out of UK Derby that have some implications towards outdoor gear and improving designs or whatever. Is UK some kind of hotbed for outdoor sports research???

Just an interested grad student.

CG

flacky · 03-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB

Not sure how to accomplish this, but one thought popped into my mind ... if you have any kind of attachment to the yak, it will create drag...thereby making it harder to roll. So, if your device didn't attach to the yak, but to the pool floor, it would make it a little more sturdy (giving the student something to press against) and would not contribute to drag. Other benefit: -- easier to make some kind of "stand" to fit pools, than trying to make something so versitale that would fit all the different shapes of boats.

by the way -- don't get any ideas about producing this...the idea is MINE! you understand?!! mine mine mine go go go mine mine mine --- oh...sorry...daffy duck flashbacks.

Tony, you seem to have ruined my whole design work by thinking of a much better solution to what I have been working on. Drats!!. well as it goes back to the drawing board!!

flacky · 03-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristopherG

...at the amount of PhD dissertations that come out of UK Derby that have some implications towards outdoor gear and improving designs or whatever. Is UK some kind of hotbed for outdoor sports research???

Just an interested grad student.

CG

It just so happens that one of our course members stumbled across this site that has proved to be very useful. Our dissertations are of our choice so its personal preference really.

TonyB · 03-09-2004

OK ... I'm the idea man. If this ever goes to production, I just want my cut. 50 / 50 sound good? My wife always gives me sh!t because I have all these great ideas but I never implement them.